Warning Bulldog fans: This is in response to you clogging up the Atlanta airwaves with Tim Tebow is overrated chatter.....
Ok, all hands on deck, as some of you know I am a huge Oklahoma fan, my parents both went to OU, as well as my grandparents, etc, I was the first not to go, but since I was born I have had crimson and cream in my blood. So in this post I have no biases, and am looking as a fan of the greatest game, college football.
There is absolutely no comparison as far as a college quarterback, because remember they are in college, between Tebow and Stafford. Let's look at the numbers, and don't tell me Florida runs a better offense for stats because Florida has bombed when recruiting running backs so Tebow has to play two positions, which is tougher than just handing the ball off to whomever is running in the Georgia backfield.
Tim Tebow
-2006 Season
2007 Season (in which he was hurt some of the season, because UF sucks at recruiting backs)
Walter Camp Foundation National Offensive Player of the Week [50]
Southeastern Conference Offensive Player of the Week, three times [51] [52] [53]
Davey O'Brien Award winner [54]
Heisman Trophy winner.
Maxwell Award winner [54]
Walter Camp Award finalist[55]
ESPN The Magazine Academic All-American football team [56]
Manning Award finalist[56]
Rivals.com National Offensive Player of the Year [57]
Rivals.com SEC Offensive Player of the Year [58]
Rivals.com First Team All-SEC [58]
First Team All-SEC Coaches Conference football team[59]
Associated Press SEC Offensive Player of the Year[60]
Associated Press All-SEC First Team[60]
Associated Press Player of the Year[61]
Listed as an All-American by: Associated Press, Football Writers Association of America, Walter Camp Football Foundation, Sporting News, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, CBS Sports, College Football News, Rivals.com, and Scout.com
James E. Sullivan Award, awarded to the Nations top amateur athlete[62]
Roy F. Kramer SEC Male Athlete of the Year[63]. Third Florida Gator to win this award, Danny Wuerffel (won twice) and Ryan Lochte.
ESPY for Best Male College Athlete
Southeastern Conference Offensive Player of the Week, three times [51] [52] [53]
Davey O'Brien Award winner [54]
Heisman Trophy winner.
Maxwell Award winner [54]
Walter Camp Award finalist[55]
ESPN The Magazine Academic All-American football team [56]
Manning Award finalist[56]
Rivals.com National Offensive Player of the Year [57]
Rivals.com SEC Offensive Player of the Year [58]
Rivals.com First Team All-SEC [58]
First Team All-SEC Coaches Conference football team[59]
Associated Press SEC Offensive Player of the Year[60]
Associated Press All-SEC First Team[60]
Associated Press Player of the Year[61]
Listed as an All-American by: Associated Press, Football Writers Association of America, Walter Camp Football Foundation, Sporting News, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, CBS Sports, College Football News, Rivals.com, and Scout.com
James E. Sullivan Award, awarded to the Nations top amateur athlete[62]
Roy F. Kramer SEC Male Athlete of the Year[63]. Third Florida Gator to win this award, Danny Wuerffel (won twice) and Ryan Lochte.
ESPY for Best Male College Athlete
Matthew Stafford
-
2006-2007 Seasons (Georgia fans if he had any 2007 awards, let me know, couldn't find any)
Awards
Named SEC Freshman of the Week twice during the 2006 season.
Named Rivals.com's National Freshman of the Week for his performance against Auburn on November 11, 2006.
Received the University of Georgia's 2006 Offensive Newcomer of the Year Award.
Named to the 2006 SEC Coaches' All-Freshman Team. [9]
Named Offensive MVP of the 2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl
Named Rivals.com's National Freshman of the Week for his performance against Auburn on November 11, 2006.
Received the University of Georgia's 2006 Offensive Newcomer of the Year Award.
Named to the 2006 SEC Coaches' All-Freshman Team. [9]
Named Offensive MVP of the 2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl
Ok so that is close let's look at some more numbers, again they are college quarterbacks, not in pros yet, so the argument is still who would you rather have in college. I am taking the 21 touchdowns out that Tebow had on the ground, because some fans don't want to hear that he scored more TD's rushing than Bo Jackson ever did in a season. (Heisman year, Bo had 17 TD's)
Matthew Stafford 194-348 comp/att 2523 yards 19 TD 10 INT
Tim Tebow 234-350 comp/att 3286 yard 32 TD 6 INT
Well, these stats seem to favor Tebow, maybe just a little bit, so again if you are a college coach who would you rather have at quarterback.....I think I like 32 to 6, better than 19 to 10. Oh wait and the 32 to 6 guy also scores 21 TD's on the ground, mmmmm.....If that is not enough we will go to what matters most championships.
Championships
Matthew Stafford- N/A
Tim Tebow- 2006 SEC Champion, 2006 National Champion
Also, don't start because Tebow contributed a ton to all the games in 2006. Will listen, but I know that Chris Leak was nothing before Tebow was in Gainesville, the teams had to concentrate on stopping Tebow, which allowed Leak to relax and just manage the game. Whenever the Gators needed a big first down, Tebow was the man they called on to get the yards passing or running.
To end this conversation I will say that Stafford and Tebow are tied 1-1, but we will talk after Georgia plays at LSU the week before they play Florida....don't think it will be 2-1 Stafford.
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The Joe
25 comments:
How are they 1-1? The facts show 2-0 Tebow... and ok he should have been in my Heisman picks, but I don't do repeat winners!
The Pro
Actually, Stafford is up 1-0. Tebow didn't start against UGA in '06, Leak did. Tebow also went down in like the 1st quarter and missed the rest of the game, so it doesn't make sense to give Tebow credit for a game he barely played in over the true frosh Stafford that played all 4 quarters and ended up losing to the eventual national champs by only a TD.
Also, UGA owned Tebow in the GA-FL game last year. Blame it on Tebow's shoulder, UGA's end zone celebration, catching the Gators sleeping, or getting lucky, but when Michigan copied our defensive gameplan, Tebow got owned by them in Outback Bowl, too.
I for one think Tebow has been figured out. He will be hurt at least once this year and his stats won't rise near the level of his sophomore campaign. He will not repeat as Heisman. Meyer has already said he won't run as much this year.
Tebow definitely has the better college stats thus far, but Stafford will have a very good campaign this year and then go #1 in the draft if he decides to leave. Tebow will play "blowout backup" for 3-4 seasons in the pros, then peter out. Write it down.
Oh, and as the famous pictures show, Tebow cries and kisses guys.
Go Noba!! I like both stafford and Tebow as apparently (see pics) other women do - you and joe and pro have provided me with so much info it will take a while to assimilate - if i get much more info I will have to go back to who is cuter again!!!!!!
Ok Noba, Tebow played in the game so he does count as 1-1, stupid argument. Like I said earlier we will see how banged up Stafford is after going into LSU and then having to go play Florida, see if he has a bum shoulder. Also, Tebow and the offense scored 30 points against the Bulldogs defense, the almighty shut down defense, are you kidding, what a shut down, 30 points. Tebow's offense scored 30+ in the Michigan game, so it doesn't take a genious to figure out why they lost those games, wasn't Tebow....Tebow is not figured out, the Florida defense had tons of holes, but now that they are a year older and faster with new guys, watch out...So what if Tebow doesn't run as much in the year, just add those touchdowns to his throwing total, so he will only have more yards and like 55 TD's, he sucks. Tebow would kick ass while Stafford is showing how fat he is by lifting kegs, awesome man, you the man. Finally, my premise was that in college Tebow is way better, and all the awards, stats, championships show this, could care less about what he does in the pros. Georgia fans that say they would rather have Stafford than Tebow are lying to themselves...the argument is he makes a better pro quarterback, ooops forgot to care, how does that help the Georgia Bulldogs.....
The Joe
Damn dog, settle down.
Sorry, but I stand by every point I made. If you want to say Tebow vs. Stafford head to head includes a game where Tebow was knocked out of during the first or second drive and didn't factor into the outcome whatsoever, sure, go ahead. My point is 100% logical. You have a starter vs. a backup who plays 2-3 downs before leaving the game. Call that equal if that's how you see it. For Christ's sake, Tebow averaged -1.2 yards/carry against GA and was sacked 5 times. He was owned, and he's lucky that performance didn't keep him from the Heisman. And by the way, Michigan did implement GA's defensive gameplan, held him to under 4 yards/carry and only 1 TD, and surprise, surprise, the Gators lost. Blitz Tebow from his running lanes constantly - he can't take it. GA and Michigan knew it, now the secret is out.
Again, I didn't dispute the Tebow to Stafford college stats comparison. The numbers don't lie, but whether you want to discuss it or not I have the right to present my argument however I see fit, and if Stafford goes on to have a storied NFL career and Tebow ends up with a calling FL games on the radio because he doesn't have the talent to succeed in the pros, well, that's a legitimate argument about who is the greater player. I mean, I love JJ Reddick, but I'd be crazy to say he is better than anyone else because of him owning in college.
I do agree with you on one thing - the FL defense had a "ton of holes." Well, they just lost 2 safeties for the year from one of the worst secondaries in the SEC, and yet this is the team you think is going to win the SEC and compete for a NC? A team with sub-par defense never wins the SEC. This year will be no different. These guys had your beloved Heisman winner and still finished 3rd in their division.
Anybody can look at stats and say "This guy must be better." Good thing you have a day job, "Joe," because your CFB analysis leaves a lot to be desired. But that's not analysis.
I love that all this will be put to the test in a few months. After that, Ronnie should can your ass from the blog and put me in.
And oh, I would rather have Stafford any day of the week, and I'm not lying to myself. Just look at which QB's team won last year's matchup, finished with a better record and ranking, went to (and won) a better bowl, and you think I would take Tebow? Oh, and Stafford did it without crying and kissing other men.
Analyze then, you tell me who Clemson and VT are going to lose to, tell who is going to win the SEC, tell me who is going to win the ACC Coastal and Atlantic division, etc....just do it real quick and see what answers you get...
Oh wait I have your answers:
Georgia: SEC
VT and Clemson: ACC
but do it anyway....
The Joe
Oh and Florida will beat Georgia, by at least a touchdown, and no I will not put my money where my mouth is because I only bet Oklahoma games....
Noba, are you Matt Stafford?
is this even an issue? stafford wears tim tebow pajamas. how do look past the fact that tebow is a better passer than stafford? yes we all know the stafford has a hose, but mark wholers threw 100 mph but did he know where it was going? the thought of stafford going #1 over all makes me puke. you have to be two steps outside of your mind if you think that. what good is a cannon if you can't hit anything with it besides the guys in the other jerseys? so UGA beat them blah blah blah and florida lost against michigan but stafford actually has help with RBs. I totally agree that tebow plays two positions. if stafford ran half as much as tebow did, he woulda broken his vagay. i think stafford is talented, dont get me wrong, but he is not a better college quarterback than tebow. i just hate that UGA are like ohio state fans, they think they should be #1 every year and they are the greatest team ever. yes, UGA is going to be pretty legit this year but get over yourselves.
Are you one of the guys that Tebow kisses?
no, haven't kissed "Superman"....
where is your analysis on Clemson and VT and who is going to win the SEC?
Please get it right, I'm an SEC snob, not just a UGA snob.
I hesitate to say Tebow may be a fullback with a decent arm, but no one has mentioned his fantastic receivers and UGA's subpar ones (believe it or not, I am probably far too willing to criticize my team and admit weakness). Ours finally came on 2nd half in 07 but alas, Mikey Henderson and Sean Bailey are gone. Now outside of MoMass, we got Michael Moore, and some promising but unproven frosh. Everyone knows the dropped balls we have seen during Richt's tenure. Eason is a marked man in Athens for that reason. It's a plague.
No mention has been made either of Tebow racking up a lot of his stats vs. scrubs. I'm not saying he can't play against legit teams, he can and has. But those giant numbers everyone is in awe of don't reach those heights without Urban letting his team hang 60 on some poor Division 2 teams. You couldn't pay Richt to score a 4th quarter TD when up by 3 possessions. He'll throw Joe Cox out there and hand off to the 3rd string HB for 9 mins. (Another complaint. I agree with Ronnie's comment that Caleb's presence is the biggest threat to Moreno winning the Heisman).
Someone check out what Tebow's scrub stats vs. teams with winning records stats are, and cross-ref the Gators record in those games? I believe the comparison would be interesting.
And I'm genuinely interested to know your take on this question:
Who - as a starter and the "man in charge" of the team - won the bigger game? Tebow or Stafford? Stafford has done everything he has done as a starter. Tebow's team has not been able to win with him being the man for 4 quarters against UGA, Auburn, LSU, or their bowl game. If you can't admit that tarnishes St. Tebow's legacy until he accomplishes that, then I dunno what to tell you, but I say wins > stats. Leak sucked, but he was the senior starter and LED his team to that NC (MVP, I'm sure you'll remember), not Tebow.
I know it's easy to point to the 06 NC and SEC championship, but my criterion here is as the starter and the man who takes the blame, what are the results for the team so far? We know if Florida had sucked or lost to OSU in 2006, the blame would have been on Leak.
What about Clemson and VT? Dude, I have already said that the SEC is by far the best conference..... You said my analysis had something to be desired, analyze those two teams and tell me who they are going to lose to, and who is going to win the SEC, etc.?
To answer your question:
I would take Tebow over any quarterback in the country......
Also, I say Tebow= Heisman/ National Championship, Stafford=?
Auburn and UGA will play for the SEC title. UGA will win.
I couldn't care less about the ACC race, but I strongly believe neither VT or Clemson, much less both, will go 11-1. VT has a far better chance of doing so, IMO, but I say neither. Beyond that, I'm far too disinterested to write any more.
Tebow = PART of Nat'l Championship team as a backup at his position + an award that doesn't give his team so much as a point after
Stafford (I'll answer your question mark here) = better record as a starter, 2 bowl victories as a starter, beaten more top 25 teams as a starter
Outside of UT, who admittingly brutally stomped us, did FL even beat a team last year that finished in the top 25 last year? By my count UGA beat 3 - FL, Hawaii, and Auburn. Each by 12-31 points, btw, and Stafford had great games in all of them. So that's 3-1 record vs. top 25 teams Stafford has as a starter over Tebow, and I'm not counting the previous year, when Stafford beat Auburn, Tech, and VT teams all in the top 25. And he did that all in a row.
This year will be interesting. I can't deny that Stafford will never put up Tebow numbers because he has guys to run the ball for him and the offenses are totally different, so the rush TDs/yards will never match.
But Stafford's arm, which ain't bad (ya'll rated him a top 5 in the country QB, I believe), will only get better. I just can't buy your stance that he will disappoint a lot of folks this year.
First of all I said Stafford will let some folks down because Georgia is not going 13-0 and winning a national championship like all and I mean all the Georgia fans think is going to happen. It is not going to happen.
Second, don't talk if you can't back it up, my records I do are best case for the best two or three teams and then worst case for the rest of the conference, it doesn't take a genious to figure that out. For example Georgia's worst case is 9-3...Auburn since they are top team in conference best case is 10-2. So VT and Clemson of course, those are their best case records, I think they will play in the championship and if you are going to chirp, then back it up Noba, tell me who you think Clemson and VT are going to lose to...if you are so smart tell me, you said my college football analysis has something to be desired, so stop ignoring the question...It is easy to say that VT and Clemson will lose more games, so show me how smart you are and pick the games they are going to lose....
Finally, open your mind....and by the the way Florida is going to beat Georgia....
Noba,
There is no doubt that you fit the “typical” Georgia Homer reading your posts! Im not sure where to begin. First lets take a look at stafford season. Lets for your argument sake just take the good teams and not the patsy teams. 1st Matt had a big game against SC when he went 19-44 no touchdowns and 2 picks..Wow tebow couldn’t pull that off. Next Alabama 19-35 224 yards 2 td and 2 int.. Tenn 16-33 174yrd 2tds and Int. I will not continue to bore everyone with these jaw dropping numbers.
Next, and one of my favorite things about GA fans... When was the last time you won a Nat championship?? Were you even born? Last year the Gators did come in 3rd place but that was after losing 10 starters on defense?? It wasn’t suppose to be a great year.. Also coming off a National championship win.. Did you forget that? Speaking of that now while you are correct in that Chris leak was the starting Qb, If Tebow didn’t make the huge contributions he did there would have been no Championship.. Using your argument I guess Mariano Rivera didnt really matter in all the Yankees rings because he didnt’ start!!
I could go on all day but I’ll end with this a simple lesson in football for you. If the offensive line does not protect the Qb then even the best player in the world ie Tom Brady or Peyton Manning will not have there best day. I will give you that the Bulldog defensive line did own the gators offensive line most of the game, but by no means did you “Own” Tebow. He completed 64% of his passes and a touchdown with no picks and scored a couple rushing tds with a dislocated shoulder.
PS. STOP being a homer... I can say that Moreno is better than any tailback on the Florida Roster. Just say it and it will make you feel better....Tebow is a Superior College QB... Give me a Tebow or Danny W and some Championships and you can have your Strong Armed #1 draft pick Qbs. But to be honest I want that chick from OU picture to be the gator QB...Wow
Dude, you run a blog that totes its sports analysis. I am perfectly free to say that analysis sucks ass without having to make pointless predictions myself. That's like saying:
"You can't criticize the media without going out an investigating a story and reporting it yourself!"
"You can't criticize the cops without going out and fighting crime yourself!"
"You can't criticize an athlete without making the pros and playing in the games yourself!"
FL may beat GA this year - I said that when I said UGA may lose to FL and Auburn. I mainly differed with your pick of ASU. However, I still think a Gator victory is unlikely after last year's matchup. GA returns 9 of 11 starters, the Gators secondary that everyone toasted is not fixed, and the Dawgs don't have a mental block against the Gators anymore.
At this point we are going in circles, so we will see how it all plays out on the field.
Anonymous (probably the Joe),
You are an idiot. The Mariano Riviera comment was especially moronic. Comparing a closer in baseball to a backup QB in football? Good grief.
USC? The team didn't score a touchdown, and if you watched the game - as I did, because I was there - you would have seen two dropped touchdown passes, a refusal to stick with Moreno, and horrific playcalling by Mike Bobo. Stafford didn't lose that game for UGA.
Tenn? I already said we got our asses handed to us, but that too was a team lost. Stafford didn't lose that game for us, though he was part of the suckiness.
That AL game you mentioned - the one where Stafford through the 30+ yard TD pass in overtime to win the game? You're right, he sucked in that one. Screw clutch plays that win games, right?
If you want to judge Stafford by his worst games, then fine, but judge Tebow by his worst, too (UGA and Michigan). And don't blame the dislocated non-throwing shoulder for his -1.2 rushing yards. Gimme a break, this guy is supposed to be Superman and you want to use that excuse?
It will all be on the field this year, I don't have much more to say beyond that, except I'm glad I've gotten so much attention.
Good ol' heated SEC debate! Let's refrain from taking shots at each other and simply state your opinions. It's an open forum for knowledgeable sports / life discussions. Much love! The Pro
noba
georgia wins 2 games out of the last 16 years and all of the sudden you are not concerned with the gators... Wow I hope the georgia players feel the same way because the Dawgs will lose by multiple touchdowns.. Also the gator secondary will be fine against and average QB like Stafford...Im more worried about the gators weakness at DT...
Seanags out
joe
nice topic and thanks for givng a fair non slanted opinion since you are a oklahoma fan. Which coach would you rather have Meyer or Richt?
thanks,
Seanags
Thank you Seanags, that is true, this UF/UGA game really interests me now, before it was just a game, but now I see the intensity of the situation, that is why fan is short for fanatic. You seem to know a lot about the SEC, I love SEC fans, they are the best. To answer your question, I think I would like to have Urban Meyer as my coach because he recruits the way I would like to see, etc..., Meyer has won everywhere he has been. Richt is too busy being nice and friendly and he sometimes loses that key recruit, he has gotten better of late, Meyer is a trememdous competetitor and Richt is just not there yet, but he is getting better like I said....
anonymous wasn't me....
answer the question who is going to beat VT and Clemson, do it...
who says they will eat their socks?
don't flatter yourself, everyone likes to bury an ignorant Georgia fan....
Why are you so scared?
The Joe
You are right we are just going in circles, can't wait til the game, til then, have a nice start to the college football season....
The Joe
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